Curse

Vazze · Sep 29, 2007, 06:34 AM // 06:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rapture

lorekeeper: stop posting every second post stating your vision of ra. we get it already and we dont care. the ra you envision is not fun in any way.

you talk too much lore

Div · Sep 29, 2007, 07:39 AM // 07:39

Lorekeeper has his good points though. He is trying to envision a perfect system in which everyone is semi-decent and can tolerate playing with each other. That is quite possibly the best way to get newer players to go into PvP and expand the quality player base. He's a very good PvP'er too, so his words should definitely carry a little more weight than most other posters around here.

That said, GW RA is simply not that ideal, no matter how they change it. It is simply hard to "have fun" and "relax" when the team is just horrible. Sure I can play a 123456 sin and kill something for fun, but when you die, and some ranger just runs around with escape+dodge+zojun's from a team of 2 warriors, a paragon, and a monk, it gets frustrating. Maybe I'm just unlucky, but it happened 3 times in a row for me. I go in on a sin, thinking I'm just there to kill some people for fun. A minute later I find myself dead and watching some griefer run around for 5 minutes while I can't even leave.

Maybe a code where you can leave the game without penalty when only one person on your team is alive will solve the problem, but then there are still some issues to be addressed. I also noticed the quality of RA teams in TA to be at an all time low as well. This is a good sign that more people are sticking it out with their team (hence the average RA team is worse, and the average team making it to TA is worse).

However, this also creates a false sense of accomplishment for newer players. This ego boost can make it harder for them to learn new tricks in the future. If people who are "succeeding" in RA have that attitude of rejecting new suggestions from other players because they think they're better, it'll greatly hurt their ability to truly improve. That's going to happen to everyone. I'll admit that if some random guy with 200k balth faction comes up to me and teaches me how to PvP, I'll probably shrug him off, because he's not very likely to offer new insight for me. Whatever, it's late and that last paragraph probably didn't make sense...

C2K · Sep 29, 2007, 08:22 AM // 08:22

If this particular system is to succeed, Gladiator points need to be removed from RA.

Also, People should be allowed to leave after a minute of play. It would certainly stop the "tanking" griefings that are rampant in RA as of now. If you can tank the other team, good for you. But your other 3 teammates will suffer as if they leave, they are dishonored(even though they have no chance of contributing when they are dead, you might even consider them leechers).

I'm not happy with the Gladiator title change as well, but oh well, apparently popular opinion said change it.

segnisletum · Sep 29, 2007, 08:32 AM // 08:32

Quote:

whose complaints are valid and whose are just whining

Which are you again?

Amazingly the people who leave/enter all the time are angry about this. Personally, I love it. Ra'ed a bit today. Had more good matches than I normally do. Never bumped into any 3 monk groups. Or 3 sin groups. Never had to deal with a frenzy-healsig/mending/meteor shower warrior. Only had to deal with one person on a running build. He spent the whole time spamming the evilness of the update. Had multiple groups make it to 5 with no monk, groups that probably never would have started a day ago. And despite everyone's claim of having to wait 12 minutes, even though 8 was max for every match I played, few of my matches lasted more than 5 min(including two games with a 55). Seems that people are picking one bad example from an hours worth of play and making it seem like the norm.

As for the lack of people on here praising the new build, they might be in game playing and enjoying it. As opposed to the people who hated it and got dishonor anyways and had to complain to someone and vent their anger. But here you go, some sympathy

And the leavers are complaining about legitimacy of how they play. That the update ruined ra for them. What about all the people, probably considerably more, who go to ra to dink around for a little while but because they aren't lucky enough to be randomized into a monk group they are forced to fight 3v4or 2v4? Yes they could leave to, but they enjoy playing the game, could care less about glad points, and enjoy a good time even if losing over having to reload ra, watch a countdown, hope to get into a match, only to have it happen all over again. How were they treated prior to update?

Glad=worthless before and after update. Though high ranks maybe a little more worth now.

Quote:

I am getting ignored by ANet anyway since they never do any of my suggestions

A member of anet well be on the phone with you first thing Monday morning to discuss how you would like Guild Wars to be run. Mind you, you have to listen to everyone and piss off no one. Otherwise you are a moron.

NeHoMaR · Sep 29, 2007, 10:43 AM // 10:43

Two points coming to my mind now:

- Is not as LOGIC going TA when you don't "like" RA; in TA exist exactly the same problem of HA outpost (too long for explain here, and everybody know it very well)

- Dancing Daggers combo is really good, but it cannot be nerfed, the only possible solution is completely destroy the combo, similar to they did with HA ViM trappers. And I really disagree with complete destruction of builds, specially one as smart as Dancing Daggers. // Oh! and I can confirm there are many ways to counter that combo: interrupts, diversion, knockdowns, energy deny, and the best of all, a good monk; I guarantee some monks are impossible to kill with DD combo; I am taking from both sides: as Monk, and as DD.

Now one suggestion:

Add the possibility of leave without penalty in some situations, example: You have 30 seconds dead and no one resurrect you; Another one already leaved before you (only the first leaver should get dishonor); Your team started with 3 or 2 people; and so on.

---

BTW, I suggested long time ago about make both RA and TA standalone places. I mean, you NEVER go to TA from RA. // Also, comes to my mind now the limit must change to 20 consecutive for going to TA, aka when you are already maxed points (4 points) per 5 wins. Isn't logic anymore going to TA at the 10 consecutive, think in that please.

Sab · Sep 29, 2007, 12:56 PM // 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

Isn't that the nature of Random Arenas? You have just as much of a chance of going up against a team lacking defense or lacking offense as you have being on that team. It's the nature of the beast when you play in a random battle.

It's a lot like sealed play, which is how I look at it. You have a risk of being on a team with a strange, and possibly ineffective configuration, but everyone entering shares that same risk. Leaving and rejoining over and over again until you get a team that suits you is not random. If you always want to be on a team that is to your precise expectations, I have to echo others here and suggest you try Team Arenas. If you are going to play random arenas, IMO, you should take the bad with the good, and give every battle your full effort. I was just in Random Arenas not 30 minutes ago. I was on a team with 3 sins and a necro. A team that, two days ago, most likely would have had some leavers. We stayed, gave it our all, and won 10 consecutive battles, losing upon reaching TA. Even with the old Glad title, that would have been a glad point. Based on what I have seen so far, I feel this system, if nothing else, encourages people to actually *try* in a battle, instead of looking at their party bar, seeing no Mo/ and leaving.

In short, it seems this has made Random Arenas random again. Of course, we will be watching to observe the changes, and I am certainly passing on your concerns or complaints about the system.

While I understand the idea of "Random" Arenas, there are situations where leaving simply won't hurt anyone's gameplay. I listed them before:

- You can't leave even after you win. While this is close to circumventing the "Random" aspect of RA, there are plenty of class combinations which are no fun for anyone on the team, such as 3-Monk teams, spirit spammers, griefers, etc. Leaving after a match and before the timer should remain an option.

- You can't leave if someone else on your team has already left. What sense is there in fighting a 3v4? 2v4? 1v4? While it's possible to win, I think we'd prefer to enter again with a full group and have a decent match.

- You can't leave if someone on your team is griefing. Idiots who run around for 5-6 minutes laughing at their dead teammates because they're forced to stay and watch. Enough said.

- You can't leave if there's a stalemate and neither team wants to resign. It's boring. And even if you win, you'll have to endure stalemate after stalemate until you lose, because you can't get a new team either.

All the situations above can be easily fixed with small changes to the dishonor system. However, if you see those un-fun situations as necessary to RA, then give us a skill balance so "Go play TA" is actually a good suggestion.

Servant of Kali · Sep 29, 2007, 01:42 PM // 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nehomar

Dancing Daggers combo is really good, but it cannot be nerfed, the only possible solution is completely destroy the combo

Nerf Paradox. It solved Dancing Daggers combo.

It's better to nerf into oblivion than leave blatantly overpowered. I believe ANet already agreed with that in numerous cases. See Protective Bond for instance.

Aera · Sep 29, 2007, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rapture

lorekeeper: stop posting every second post stating your vision of ra. we get it already and we dont care. the ra you envision is not fun in any way.

Speak for yourself there buddy. Lorekeeper is one of the few that actually provides proper feedback, gives nice new ideas and shares his opinions in an adult way, can't say the same about you.

urania · Sep 29, 2007, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

Theres no choice about it. If you are serious about getting rank 7+ gladiator, you really dont stand much hope of achieving it in RA. Unless you are a multimillionaire or at school and you have time and the patience of a saint to grind it in RA.

I guess no one told you then that the player with the highest gladiator rank in the game is a Korean RA only player. Synchroing with guildies in a completely empty korean ra district for about...2 years now, I dare saying.
There are also quite a few other RA only players that gained high ranks (>r5 gladiator) throughout their RA grind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeHoMaR

- Dancing Daggers combo is really good, but it cannot be nerfed, the only possible solution is completely destroy the combo, similar to they did with HA ViM trappers. And I really disagree with complete destruction of builds, specially one as smart as Dancing Daggers. // Oh! and I can confirm there are many ways to counter that combo: interrupts, diversion, knockdowns, energy deny, and the best of all, a good monk; I guarantee some monks are impossible to kill with DD combo; I am taking from both sides: as Monk, and as DD.

I am sorry, but...do you even know what you're saying?

Monks impossible to be killed with DD combo? With, for example, 2 sins on you each having 3 knockdowns which they can and will chain on you..?
Ok, ill try running ward of stability monk or balanced stance monk, who knows...it might be fun! =p

-_-

Really, do I have to explain why does a build that is completely absurd and only involves furious button smashing (and some people fail even at that, as i could observe lately..) have to die..?

I still wonder why did boons have to die. I mean, apart from CoP for handling daze/migr/shutdown mesmer or anything in those lines of shutdown they wouldnt really stand much of a chance in TA or RA atm anyway, cuz there is no way they'd be able to keep up with the high cond/hex pressure for long without an additional energy management and additional off character hex and cond removal.
But if such a nice monk build had to die (admit it, the build had CoP, one best monk skill in the game - which, however, made a small return with smiters boon!), why should a lame and ridiculously overpowered build such as the A/Mo DDs get to live?

---

Overall, I like Lorekeeper's addition to this thread a lot. If you dont like his views..then you just dont.
if you dont care about it why did you dedicate a part of ur post to say sth as trivial as that is? Ignore him. I mean...you dont care, right? =p

Anyway, as Lorekeeper and many others already stated, if there was no gladi points in RA there would be no issues for anet to deal with in regards to RA and no reasons for players to QQ, whine, flame or w/e as far as the current situation is concerned. But very likely, there would be far less people playing in RA then. Yet, if those ppl only played for points, which is not a right reason to regularly play RA, then it would better if there would be no points awarded in RA to start with.

glountz · Sep 29, 2007, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

While I understand the idea of "Random" Arenas, there are situations where leaving simply won't hurt anyone's gameplay. I listed them before:

- You can't leave even after you win. While this is close to circumventing the "Random" aspect of RA, there are plenty of class combinations which are no fun for anyone on the team, such as 3-Monk teams, spirit spammers, griefers, etc. Leaving after a match and before the timer should remain an option.

I agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

- You can't leave if someone else on your team has already left. What sense is there in fighting a 3v4? 2v4? 1v4? While it's possible to win, I think we'd prefer to enter again with a full group and have a decent match.

The anti leaver issue should resolve this. No more leaver means more 4v4 battles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

- You can't leave if someone on your team is griefing. Idiots who run around for 5-6 minutes laughing at their dead teammates because they're forced to stay and watch. Enough said.

Lower the Timer is the Answer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

- You can't leave if there's a stalemate and neither team wants to resign. It's boring. And even if you win, you'll have to endure stalemate after stalemate until you lose, because you can't get a new team either.

That doesn't happen so often. The few times it happens, you can leave. One leaving in a whole session of RA won't forbid you to play.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

All the situations above can be easily fixed with small changes to the dishonor system. However, if you see those un-fun situations as necessary to RA, then give us a skill balance so "Go play TA" is actually a good suggestion.

I don't really understand you. THese situations, that is 3v4 battles, stalemates, runners, already existed far before the anti-leaver system was implemented. In fact, the report system will seriously reduce such practice. And the resign command, should become mandatory when such stalemates occur. Just teach people to use it.

Vazze · Sep 29, 2007, 04:18 PM // 16:18

If anet wants to tell me how I should and how I should not play in RA, I am perfectly ok with that (they made new rules and I posted my opinion), however, when Lore is trying to tell me WHY I should play RA/TA and why not, thats ridiculous, perhaps even more than his visionary assumptions.

Sab · Sep 29, 2007, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

The anti leaver issue should resolve this. No more leaver means more 4v4 battles.

I should add disconnects and errors as causes for 3v4s.

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

Lower the Timer is the Answer.

It doesn't matter how long the timer is, the point is that this system encourages griefers because their own teammates are forced to stay.

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

That doesn't happen so often. The few times it happens, you can leave. One leaving in a whole session of RA won't forbid you to play.

I mentioned stalemates because it happened to me so many times today that I got the hex and promptly closed GW.

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

I don't really understand you. THese situations, that is 3v4 battles, stalemates, runners, already existed far before the anti-leaver system was implemented. In fact, the report system will seriously reduce such practice. And the resign command, should become mandatory when such stalemates occur. Just teach people to use it.

Of course, those situations already existed. The difference is that before the update, you could leave freely when those situations occurred. Now, you can't. And that's bad.

Like I said, runners and griefers are actually encouraged by the system. I don't know if the report command works or not because the process isn't entirely clear. What *exactly* does ANet constitute as griefing? I don't want to get myself punished for reporting every retard in RA as someone trying to ruin my game.

And in a stalemate, nobody wants to resign - they want the *other team* to resign. It's one thing to say in team chat "type /resign", but it's another to get your whole team to actually resign, or the other team in that case.

Edit: Reading the update note again, I'm not even sure if I can report griefers because it's not listed there.

Shmanka · Sep 29, 2007, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Heroes>RA?

In all seriousness I see more "invinci" builds coming along E/D, Mo/W, Rt/W, A/Me(Shadow Form), and it's getting ridiculous. I won't be RA'ing seriously anymore. No science to it.

Vazze · Sep 29, 2007, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

Like I said, runners and griefers are actually encouraged by the system. I don't know if the report command works or not because the process isn't entirely clear.

It is not so difficult, even a wammo can use it: I just got reported for leaching because I stopped healing my wammos after a 4mins stalemite. lolz. I sent them to a dark and unfriendly place so now I am expecting my ban for harsh language.

Cherng Butter · Sep 29, 2007, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

- You can't leave even after you win. While this is close to circumventing the "Random" aspect of RA, there are plenty of class combinations which are no fun for anyone on the team, such as 3-Monk teams, spirit spammers, griefers, etc. Leaving after a match and before the timer should remain an option.

You can't? I thought you could...I've been doing it.

Lorekeeper · Sep 29, 2007, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

I guess no one told you then that the player with the highest gladiator rank in the game is a Korean RA only player. Synchroing with guildies in a completely empty korean ra district for about...2 years now, I dare saying.
There are also quite a few other RA only players that gained high ranks (>r5 gladiator) throughout their RA grind.

yes in the old system. But with the new system the glad point requirements at the higher end of the title are pretty high to say the least.

I could not imagine myself attempting to reach these ranks just by playing in RA. Im well aware that it was done before the most recent update. I just wouldnt dream of doing it myself now. Good luck to anyone who tries to rise from rank 6+ to ranks 7, 8 and 9 in RA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vazze

If anet wants to tell me how I should and how I should not play in RA, I am perfectly ok with that (they made new rules and I posted my opinion), however, when Lore is trying to tell me WHY I should play RA/TA and why not, thats ridiculous, perhaps even more than his visionary assumptions.

i am sorry you do not agree with my opinions. But i will never stop posting them because you asked me to. I happen to have very strong opinions, and i am not afraid to voice them, i am simply trying to support Anet as best i can because in some ways i think i understand a little of what they are trying to do with these updates. Having strong opinions and voicing them seems to offend you. I am sorry that you feel that way. Deal with it.

Noone asks you to agree with me, nor do you have to read my posts, this is a public forum, you read what you like, you contribute when you like. All i think you are doing is trying to cause trouble. You provide no constructive feedback of your own but to pick fights with other people who do, you are goading, i dont know the internet forum term for it but however one might call it, its unnecessary and a little confusing. You seem to take my posts so personally yet i have no idea who you are. Lighten up, if you dont agree with me, try voicing your own opinions instead of trying to tarnish my name. Personal attacks really are unnecessary, and pretty cowardly considering you do so under no name i recognise.

to be honest i dont care what you think if you choose to voice it in this manner, at the end of the day at least one of us is actually giving Anet some constructive feedback about the updates.

and its not you

and thank you to all those who have supported my comments, it really was not needed i quite enjoy it when people disagree with me. As you can see, i quite like an argument every now and then.

but comments like that were just unnecessary

anyway back on topic

Shendaar · Sep 29, 2007, 09:42 PM // 21:42

No more RA for me. It is simply ridiculously boring and stupid now. Waste time here, waste time there ... its all it is now ... a freakin' waste of time.

GG again anet.

_SiO_ · Sep 29, 2007, 11:05 PM // 23:05

bravo anet, this is just one more reason to stop playing arena's.... bahhh

Miriandel · Sep 30, 2007, 03:24 AM // 03:24

I gave it another try today: a disaster.

3 monks teams, shadow form sins, full defense W & D, tanking Elems, i've seen them all.
When everybody is dead, do you think they would stop fighting?
Nooooooo, they stand there laughing at you or run.

I've always tried to give a team it's chance but anyone actually playing RA will notice over a course of some hours that this new system is horrible.
In bold: don't pretend to know how things go just after playing a few matches.

If Anet wants to improve the quality of RA as an incentive for new players to have a go at PvP, why don't they enforce a PvP course instead?
How comes people still don't know a rez signet is mandatory on most builds?
How comes people still don't know what focusing is meant for?

If you want to improve RAs and get more people to PvP, explain how PvP goes to newer players instead of screwing with people who know what they're doing.
Just because you've seen a few fun matches that wouldn't have been played before doesn't mean the system is a success.
I haven't seen a single one by myself, but countless matches were people rush in to die as fast as possible, or doing the minimum not to be reported.
And everybody has to endure that to the end, it's plain silly.

You also could have different RAs, one for noobs, one for rank 1+, rank 3+ and so on.

There are so many cool things to do that i still can't believe you forced people to play the way they don't want to play. It's really a lack of imagination or commitment, IMHO.

Despozblehero · Sep 30, 2007, 04:43 AM // 04:43

It still astounds me that people are expecting pro-status and non-noob builds in RA... I also never understood the whole leaving thing in RA, seems like if those people just went to TA... nevermind... anyways its random arena and if say someone whos playing a warrior and only owns prophecies wants to go mash buttons Id say RA is the place to go. If youre wanting skilled 4v4 combat with proper skillbars and tactics, TA should be the place to go... Whats so terrible about TA that you cant go there? or is randomly being thrown together and hoping you get a good team all that much fun? Seriously, getting 3 people in your team shouldnt be that hard by now, maybe if they threw a chest or something in TA after 15 consec. wins or something for the PvErs lol I dunno but it really looks like people are taking RA way too seriously. Not that I in anyway support greifing or runners or leavers in anyway, its just taking RA as a serious way to get title points is kinda funny, ever since the beginning I never expected other people in RA to know what theyre doing, dunno why expectations have changed RA hasnt lol